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 Wlyonmackenzie
Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Total posts: 14830 Location: Knee deep in Progressivist BS Gender: Male
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 Posted: 07/ 06/ 03 10:16 am Post subject: PCPC sunk in west over Kyoto |
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June 30, 2003
True blue on Kyoto
Fed Tories' Kyoto stance should freeze 'em out of the West
By EZRA LEVANT -- Calgary Sun
Where do the federal Progressive Conservatives stand on implementing the Kyoto Protocol? It's a fair question to ask, especially since Peter MacKay contracted out Tory policymaking to David Orchard, who in addition to opposing free trade is an avid environmentalist.
But even before the MacKay-Orchard deal, the Tories had taken a leap to the left on Kyoto. During last month's federal byelection in Ontario, a newspaper asked each of the parties to respond to three questions about Kyoto. It wasn't an ambush, or a live interview -- it was a written questionnaire that candidates had time to consider and provide a written, thoughtful response. In other words, there is no way that the Tory answers were an error, or a misquote or even a "gaffe."
Here are excerpts from the lengthy answer provided by Gary Schellenberger, the official Tory candidate who won the byelection.
"The Protocol has been ratified; there's no going back."
This is inaccurate, of course. All foreign treaties, including Kyoto, can be rescinded by our government. The Tories just don't want to.
| Quote: | | Looks like Perth/Middlesex picked a real liberal brown noser (WLM) |
"The PC Party will support the government in achieving the full implementation of the accord."
Full implementation of the Kyoto Protocol means reducing our emissions of carbon dioxide by 30% in the next 10 years -- regardless of our population growth or economic growth. And since man-made carbon dioxide emissions are directly linked to energy use, which is directly linked to economic growth, shrinking our emissions means shrinking our economy.
By how much? Every single car in Canada could be taken off the road and we still wouldn't even be close to meeting our Kyoto commitments.
"Our reputation as an environmentally responsible nation is at risk if the Kyoto commitment is not followed through."
This implies that Canada's national interest is defined by helping our foreign diplomats save face at UN cocktail parties as opposed to what is best for millions of Canadian consumers and taxpayers. But considering that the U.S., Mexico, China, India, Russia, Brazil and all of the OPEC countries have either refused to ratify the treaty or are exempted by the treaty from making emissions reductions, Canada would be in good company if we walked away, too.
"The PC Party's focus is on developing a strategy that will enable us to meet our obligations."
There are only two ways to meet our Kyoto obligations. One is to de-industrialize by 30%. The other is to ship billions of dollars in Kyoto foreign aid -- called "emissions credits" -- to the Third World. So no matter what "strategies" the Tories dream up, they must either involve shutting down Canadian industry or giving money away to foreigners. Nothing else is permitted under the treaty.
"The debate on reducing emissions must move away from the focus on who will lose as opposed to how we get the job done with as many win-win situations as possible."
There is no "win-win" situation for Canada. Under the treaty, there cannot be. The only winners under the treaty are Third World countries that are the proposed recipients of our "emissions credits" spending. If Canada is to meet our 30% reduction, the only question left to be answered is how that loss is distributed. The treaty foreordains that we will lose.
Even if David Orchard wasn't their new policy guru, the Tory endorsement of the Kyoto NEP would be reason enough to freeze them out of the West.
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Ezra Levant can be reached at ezra@ezralevant.com.
Letters to the editor should be sent to callet@sunpub.com.
_________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive; those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis, In Freedom .
Celebrate Hard Likker and Handgun week here at the Shadowy GroupTM   |
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hiti
Location: Mid-West Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 06/ 03 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ezra, you're so full of s**t your eyes are brown.
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"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?"
But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." -JOHN F. KENNEDY |
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Trouble
Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 06/ 03 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
"If Martin doesn't surprise us by becoming a principled leader, then at least we can be comforted that he is preparing his lips for a whole lot of American butt kissing."
--Greg McNeely |
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| foobert Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Total posts: 232 Location: Calgary Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Lets start at the top.
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"The Protocol has been ratified; there's no going back."
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The Protocol has NOT been ratified.
Not until Russia gets on board. As far as I know they have not done so yet, and the final decision for them will be rendered some time this year. |
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| Gabby Jay Joined: 09 Oct 2001 Total posts: 2324 Location: London, ON Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| hiti wrote: | | Ezra, you're so full of s**t your eyes are brown. |
Care to expand? Did the candidate not say that? Do you agree with his statements and/or think Ezra's assessment of the Accord is incorrect? Or do you only object to the cheap shots about Orchard? |
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hiti
Location: Mid-West Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 1:51 am Post subject: |
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http://www.pcparty.ca/doc/87/
http://www.pcparty.ca/doc/85/
http://www.pcparty.ca/doc/489/
The above links will give you the PCP position on Kyoto. That is contrary to what Ezra would like Gary's and the PCPs position on Kyoto to be.
And the PCPs policy "guru" is Scott Brision.
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"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?"
But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." -JOHN F. KENNEDY |
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| Gabby Jay Joined: 09 Oct 2001 Total posts: 2324 Location: London, ON Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Didn't Ezra just use Gary's words against him? If he stated something that isn't PC Party policy (and, since the provinces never agreed to support Kyoto and as far as I know, the party's MPs voted against it, I assume the PCP does not support Kyoto), then you should have a problem with Gary, whose statements appear to contradict his party's policy.. |
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Wlyonmackenzie
Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Total posts: 14830 Location: Knee deep in Progressivist BS Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 11:48 am Post subject: |
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To their credit none of the PC caucus voted to ratify Kyoto, However the Orchardite policy vote would be distinctly different. We watch the PCPC policy acrobatics with a jaundiced eye.
_________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive; those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis, In Freedom .
Celebrate Hard Likker and Handgun week here at the Shadowy GroupTM |
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| Ipberg Joined: 07 Jan 2001 Total posts: 11487 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| hiti wrote: | | Ezra, you're so full of s**t your eyes are brown. |
I thought you were a supporter of his.
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Alberta is prosperous, the population is growing and the government is debt-free. I have no doubt that Liberals, NDPers, Red Tories, Kyoto Treaty bureaucrats, and other provinces will try to make Alberta into Canada's ATM machine. |
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| freedom-man Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Total posts: 3933 Location: Greater Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| hiti you realy want your excuse for a conservative partyP.C.P to ratify the kyoto treaty? |
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hiti
Location: Mid-West Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| freedom-man wrote: | | hiti you realy want your excuse for a conservative partyP.C.P to ratify the kyoto treaty? |
Whatever gave you such a silly idea? I have just posted the info that the PCP does NOT support ratifying the Kyoto as is.
Ipberg, you have me mixed up with someone else.
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"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?"
But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." -JOHN F. KENNEDY |
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| FriedmanForever Joined: 23 Feb 2003 Total posts: 1910 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hiti, firstly, two of those documents are over a year and a half old. All three predate the signing of Kyoto, so it is perfectly within PC policy for Mr. Schellenberger to say what he did - and, as nobody has given any evidence that PC policy is contrary to this, we cannot but assume that the Progressive Conservatives are pro-kyoto.
Joe Clark's "opposition" to kyoto is reminiscent of Paul Martin's nervous attempt at fence-sitting (Paul Martin's widely open eyes really do make it look as if he has a fencepost up his ass - it also makes him look like Turner). |
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hiti
Location: Mid-West Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 07/ 03 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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spin spin spin 
The PCP policy on Kyoto has been consistant......
Peter Mackay
The federal government must negotiate in good faith province by province and sector by sector agreements in order to implement the Kyoto Accord
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"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?"
But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." -JOHN F. KENNEDY |
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| freedom-man Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Total posts: 3933 Location: Greater Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 03 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The federal government must negotiate in good faith province by province and sector by sector agreements in order to implement the Kyoto Accord |
So your party wants to sign the accord |
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hiti
Location: Mid-West Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 03 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| freedom-man wrote: | | Quote: | | The federal government must negotiate in good faith province by province and sector by sector agreements in order to implement the Kyoto Accord |
So your party wants to sign the accord |
Wasn't that also one of Hapless' Opposition day motions? To have an implementation plan for Kyoto be presented before voting on ratification. The PCP voted with Hapless on this motion and also voted with the CA against ratification as the Kyoto Accord was presented by the Liberals.
So as usual Ezra is blowing hot air. Must be sitting on his brain too long. I highly doubt if he even talked to Gary Schellenberger about his views on Kyoto.
Not ONCE did the Torys endorse the Kyoto NEP as Ezra has lied in his propaganda piece.
_________________
"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?"
But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." -JOHN F. KENNEDY |
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