View topic - Landry calls flag 'red rag' :: Free Dominion - Principled Conservative - Party and Canadian Politics

Posted: 01/ 24/ 01 12:09 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Wednesday 24 January 2001

Landry calls flag 'red rag'
Bouchard's heir apparent says he was misunderstood

Kevin Dougherty, with files from David Gamble

The Ottawa Citizen; with files from Citizen Special

Tom Hanson, The Canadian Press / Lac Beauport's own Caroline Brunet had the honour of carrying Canada's flag as she led the Canadian team into the stadium at Sydney for the opening of the Summer Olympics.

Quebec won't 'sell itself on the street for scraps of red rag'

LAC BEAUPORT, Que. -- Bernard Landry, deputy premier and the likely successor to Lucien Bouchard as premier of Quebec, dismissed the Canadian flag as a "red rag" yesterday and called federal Unity Minister Stephane Dion "the most detested politician in the history of Quebec."

Serving notice that he planned to speak "sincerely and bluntly" to his counterparts in the rest of Canada, Mr. Landry set the tone for a more vigorous constitutional debate in the months to come if he becomes Parti Quebecois leader.

"We are not for sale," Mr. Landry told reporters. "Quebec has no intention selling itself on the street for some scraps of red rag or for any other reason."

Mr. Landry dismissed federal efforts to increase the visibility in Quebec of the Canadian flag as propaganda. "That propaganda costs a lot," he said. "It is insidious and is not respectful of the Quebec nation."

Later, Mr. Landry insisted he did not mean to insult the Canadian flag.

"I have the greatest respect for the Canadian flag," he said, adding that the flag of Canada would fly over a sovereign Quebec just as the European Union flag flies in France.

Mr. Landry made his initial flag remarks to reporters during a break in a closed meeting of the PQ caucus where government MNAs pitched for increased spending in the coming provincial budget.

Asked why the Quebec government had rejected a federal offer of an $18-million contribution for major renovation projects at the Quebec City zoo and aquarium, Mr. Landry explained that the province objected to the federal government's demand for bilingual signs and display of the Canadian flag over the two projects.

Quebec planned to contribute $20 million to the zoo and aquarium projects, which will cost a total of $47 million, but rather than agree to federal conditions on bilingualism and the flag, Quebec has increased its funding to $38 million.

Realizing he put himself in a compromising position, Mr. Landry later tried to explain that the French word "chiffon" is not pejorative.

"I didn't say what you think I said," he told reporters.

"When we speak about 'chiffon' we refer to sophisticated clothing for men and women," he said, rejecting the more common translation of "chiffon" as rag.

"Secondly, my image was borrowed from bullfighting. It is the 'chiffon rouge' (red flag) that is waved at the animal to make it attack. That's what I said."

Mr. Landry insisted he was using a metaphor, disputing the interpretation that he was referring to the Canadian flag. In Ottawa, International Trade Minister Pierre Pettigrew defended Canada's demands that the flag be displayed and deplored Mr. Landry's comments.

"I think taxpayers want to know how we are spending their money. If the Canadian government is using the taxpayers' money, it is totally normal that (the flag) be there," he said.

"What Quebecers will have a hard time understanding is that they should be prepared to pay more taxes to the Quebec government because Mr. Landry doesn't want what he calls a red rag, the flag of a country that Quebecers built and the majority of Quebecers continue to support and in which they feel very comfortable.

"It is absolutely unacceptable to speak of a flag in this way," Mr. Pettigrew said.

Mr. Landry's attack on Mr. Dion came when a reporter asked what Mr. Landry thought about the unity minister's dismissal of his proposal for a "confederal union" linking a sovereign Quebec with Canada.

Mr. Dion called the proposal "absurd" because such it would give the smaller Quebec a say over what happens in the larger rest of Canada.

"It is because of that that he is the most detested politician in the history of Quebec," Mr. Landry said. "He is booed at funerals." There were some boos for Mr. Dion at the funeral of Canadiens great Maurice (Rocket) Richard last September.

Defending his "confederal union" plan, which he says is merely a updating of the sovereignty-association platform the PQ was founded on, Mr. Landry said Mr. Dion should take a look at what he is offering.

"I propose a confederal union between Canada and Quebec," he said. "Is there anything more modern than that?"

Mr. Landry recalled that Mr. Dion's father, Leon Dion, a political scientist who described himself as a "tired federalist" and advised the late premier Robert Bourassa to "hold a knife to the throat" of Canada "served (Quebec) in an exemplary manner."

"Mr. (Stephane) Dion is a child of Quebec. He was born in the nation of Quebec."

Mr. Landry said in his dealing with federal and provincial ministers across Canada he has established friendships, admitting that other ministers do not share his political views.

Mr. Landry hinted that Quebec and the federal government are heading for a confrontation in April when the heads of 34 governments gather in Quebec City for the third Summit of the Americas.

The event, which will be U.S. President George W. Bush's first official visit to Canada, is expected to draw demonstrators protesting against a proposed plan to create a hemispheric free-trade zone.

Mr. Landry said it is "shame" that Quebec, which has a higher gross domestic product than many of the nations represented at the summit will not be represented.

"The central government of Canada considers Quebec like Alberta or New Brunswick or Saskatchewan, which is an absurdity to start with," he said.

"It's as if (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair was considering Scotland and Worchestershire as the same. Scotland is a nation. I hope everyone one present will notice."

Posted: 01/ 24/ 01 12:58 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Hey all you Canadians! We'll take the Frenchies down here in Louisiana (we did it before) Crawfishing season's coming up in two months and we're short on bait.

Just kidding.

Posted: 01/ 24/ 01 2:38 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Landry bag is a separatist, but at least he's open about it. Stockyard has separatist's in the Alliance and does nothing about it. He's a gutless piece of cow dung.

Posted: 01/ 24/ 01 11:41 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

This is typical of a nation (Canada) struggling for an identity. Years ago, I learnt that
translating from one tongue to another could be hazardous. I have been the laughing stock
of many unwanted jokes. The more languages you speak the more you are exposed.

I have been listening to what Laundry said and the response from the liberals. I do not like
the separatists and the liberals. I speak French and English. I also happen to have fetched
signatures to get the Canadian flag as opposed to the Union Jack. Bernard Landry is an
atheist and I do not want to take side for him. But the language is the language. There are
no direct translation to what he said.

Posted: 01/ 25/ 01 3:35 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

I believe Mr. Landry when he said it was 'chiffon rouge' (red flag) but the media must sell their "rags!"

DON'T YOU WAVE THAT DARN 'CHIFFON' AT ME!!!

Posted: 01/ 25/ 01 11:02 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

En francais, "Bouts de chiffon rouge" means scraps of red rags. Period. Case Closed.

Landry is a vicious, anti-English, anti-Canadian.

He's already being raked over the coals on this one, by Franco-phone reporters. Here is what Don Macpherson, of the Montreal gazette had to say:

Thursday 25 January 2001

Dissing the flag

Landry's 'red rag' remark insulted a lot of Quebecers
DON MACPHERSON

The Gazette

Bernard Landry likes to say that everybody in Quebec agrees that everybody living in the province, except the aboriginals, forms a single, all-inclusive nation.

"Even Jean Charest says it," he has said more than once recently. "Le Devoir says it, La Presse says it."

He does not mention The Gazette, because he knows that the province's most important English-language daily does not agree with him.

And I'm going to go way out on a limb here and guess that most of its readers probably don't consider themselves part of a nation that conforms neatly to the present boundaries of this province, and would resist Landry's attempts to conscript them into one against their will.

I'm guessing that while they might consider themselves Quebecers, they also consider
themselves Canadians. And I'm guessing that so do a lot more - maybe all of the majority of Quebecers who voted No to sovereignty in the 1995 referendum, and even some who voted Yes after being promised they could keep their Canadian passports.

That makes a lot of Quebecers whom Landry insulted, along with the rest of the country, when, unintentionally or otherwise, he dissed the Canadian flag this week.

The surest way of insulting a people is to mistreat its symbols, and especially its flag. Soldiers used to taunt defeated enemies by dragging their captured flags in the dust behind their horses. Demonstrators burn the flag of the government against which they are protesting, or tear it to shreds.

And who can forget the impact of the trampling of the Quebec flag by a few anti-French cranks in Brockville, Ont., a scene almost lovingly played and re-played over and over again on Quebec television, sometimes in slow motion, to whip up public fury and help send support for sovereignty to unprecedented levels in 1990?

It's not the most auspicious way for Landry to enter the premier's office, which he will do shortly, even though he has at least half-apologized (he continues to argue that he was misunderstood, so it wasn't all his fault).

That Landry even half-apologized is an admission that he was in serious trouble, because he does not apologize easily. After he orally bullied an immigrant hotel clerk on referendum night in 1995, he denied for two weeks that the incident had taken place, until he learned that it had been captured on a security videotape. Only then did he apologize, and even after that he privately insisted to francophone reporters that The Gazette had somehow framed him.

And he apologized for insulting the Canadian flag only after the next morning's papers made it clear that the French-language media weren't buying his line that it was only their English-language counterparts who had misinterpreted his French words as an insult to the flag.

To recap, while commenting upon Ottawa's insistence that the Quebec City zoo post bilingual signs and fly the Canadian flag in return for a federal subsidy, Landry had said Quebecers "would not sell ourselves on the street" for "des bouts de chiffon rouge."

Several French-English dictionaries translate "chiffon" as "rag." So did several fluently bilingual reporters in their stories in yesterday's English-language dailies.

But after Landry learned that some media were quoting him as applying the phrase "bits of red rag" to the flag, he at first argued, French dictionary in hand, that he had referred not to the flag but rather to the cape used by a bullfighter to provoke the bull. His office issued a statement saying "the confusion might originate with an error of translation and interpretation."

So, then, according to Landry, what he had really meant was: "Quebecers will not sell ourselves on the street for bits of a bullfighter's cape." Sure, makes perfect sense.

It's possible the insult was unintentional, the result of Landry's very quick mind not being quite as quick as his tongue in its constant quest for the perfect figure of speech. If so, then such careless use of language on the part of someone who is said to correct the French of his colleagues is ironic.

Either way, it's another example of the occasional lack of self-restraint, temperamental as well as verbal, for which the next premier of Quebec is known. There are sure to be more. Newspaper columnists will be delighted, but other Quebecers might be less amused.

- Don Macpherson is The Gazette's Quebec-affairs columnist. He is based in Montreal and can be reached by E-mail at dmacpher@thegazette.southam.ca

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My Free Republic alias is NorthernRight

[This message has been edited by Ed S (edited 01-25-2001).]

Posted: 01/ 25/ 01 11:13 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

, he denied for two weeks that the incident had taken place, until he learned that it had been captured on a security videotape. Only then did he apologize,

He fits my image of a successful politician, a confirmed liar !

Posted: 01/ 25/ 01 12:33 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Here is another commentary. This one is the lead editorial in today's Montreal Gazette.
_______________________

Thursday 25 January 2001

Singing the Maple Leaf Rag

The Gazette

The Nice Try Award of the month goes to Deputy Premier Bernard Landry, who would have us all believe that his remark about "bits of red rags" was really just a reference to the red flag waved by matadors. Talk about a lot of bull.

A look at the context and phrase involved suggests that he really did refer to the Canadian flag disparagingly as a rag - despite his later efforts to spin himself out of trouble.

The remark came in response to a question Tuesday about Quebec's rejection of a federal offer of $18 million toward renovations of a Quebec City-area zoo and aquarium. Quebec decided it would rather kick in an additional contribution of its own than accept the conditions Ottawa attached: that there be bilingual signs at the tourist attraction and that the Canadian flag be displayed there.

Explaining his government's decision, Mr. Landry said Quebec did not intend to "sell itself on the street for some scraps of red rag or for any other reason."

Yesterday, Mr. Landry, who is almost certain to become Quebec's next premier, was still trying to explain away that offensive remark, saying that he certainly didn't intend to call the Canadian flag a rag. He said that if he'd meant to do that, he would have used a more pejorative term.

He added that he has great respect for the Canadian flag, and said that if his imprecise use of language resulted in an interpretation that shocked some people, he was truly sorry.

Perhaps one reason that people took his remark badly - aside from its inherent offensiveness - is that it came only a couple of days after Mr. Landry complained about the plethora of Canadian flags at a Montreal tennis tournament.

But Mr. Landry's backpedaling yesterday doesn't negate the impact of his earlier remarks. On Tuesday, he described the presence of Canadian flags in Quebec as "propaganda that borders on the ridiculous." That doesn't sound like someone who has great respect for the Canadian flag.

Mr. Landry shouldn't expect those who believe in Canada to forget the disparaging attitude that he let slip. It's an old refrain that one hears all too often from Parti Quebecois cabinet ministers - call it the Maple Leaf Rag.

Often, it seems that PQ ministers have nothing better to do than complain about the presence of Canadian flags, as if eradicating any evidence that this province is actually a part of Canada is their first goal. Ironically, the same ministers are usually the first to complain if Ottawa isn't sending them a cheque for this or that pet project.

What Mr. Landry should be apologizing for, most of all, is his suggestion that the acceptance of federal money - that is, money that comes in part from Quebec taxpayers - in return for bilingual signs and a few Canadian flags at a tourist attraction would amount to prostitution. In fact, bilingual signs at a tourist site would perform a rather more wholesome sort of public service.

And if anyone should be seeing red, it's Quebecers when they realize that Mr. Landry's misplaced sense of virtue is going to cost them $18 million more, at a time when there are lots of hospitals and schools in this province that could desperately use that kind of money.

The result is that the Quebec flag will fly alone at the Quebec City zoo, but it will be the most expensive flag in the province.

This incident confirms what many have suspected: that, as Liberal leader Jean Charest observed yesterday, Mr. Landry's fondness for quick quips and acid attacks betrays a worrisome lack of judgment and maturity. This won't inspire much public confidence in the next premier of Quebec.

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My Free Republic alias is NorthernRight

Posted: 01/ 25/ 01 8:21 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

HITI YOU ROCK

RED RAG, THEY BURN THE CANADIAN FLAG IN QUEBEC ALL THE TIME, I WAS IN THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AND WAS REPRIMANDED FOR KICKING THE **** OUT OF AN R22R FOR BURNING A CANADIAN FLAG.I SHOULD HAVE GOT A MEDAL. BUT ITS A FRENCH MILITARY IN CANADA AND IF YOU DO NOT SPEAK IT YOU'RE NOT BEING PROMOTED.I AM HALF FRENCH AND FROM MONTREAL , I WAS RUN OUT BY THE FRENCH (NAZIS...UM...FLQ...UM SEPARATISTS...WHATEVER THERE CALLED). WHY ????????BECAUSE I WOULD NOT BEND TO THE FRENCH NAZIS. HITLER INVENTED EVERY TACTIC THAT THE FRENCH USE AGAINST THE ENGLISH IN MONTREAL.
I SAY CUT THEM OFF! IT WOULD BE THE BEST THING FOR CANADA. THEY DRAG US DOWN IN EVERY WAY ,TRANSLATING EVERYTHING TO FRENCH COSTS CANADA BILLIONS, AND QUEBEC GETS MORE CANADIAN TAX MONEY THAN ANY ALL OTHER PROVINCES COMBINED. NOW ONLY THE FRENCH CAN WORK FOR THE GOV'T ,MILITARY AND ANY PUBLIC OFFICE. ****, WHY DON'T WE GIVE THEM THE COUNTRY TODAY? CUT OFF ALL THE MONEY TO THEM, TAKE BACK THEIR CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP AND SEE IF THEY CAN COVER THEIR WELFARE PAYMENTS FOR THE FIRST YEAR.

ANYONE WORTH HAVING WILL MOVE TO ONTARIO OR OTHER PROVINCES CREATING AN ECONOMIC BOOM FOR CANADA. WHEN THE FEW DUMB FRENCHMEN ARE STARVING AND BEGGING FOR OUR HELP, WE HELP ONLY IF THEY ACCEPT THAT QUEBEC WILL BE ENGLISH LIKE THE REST OF CANADA AND IF THEY START UP AGAIN IT WILL BE TREASON THEY WILL BE PUT ON A BOAT TO FRANCE.

Posted: 01/ 26/ 01 11:27 pm Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Irish, where did you learn those nice stories? Are you making them up?

Where and when did you see Quebeckers burning the Canadian flag all the time? You
have served in the Royal vingt-deuxième Régiment. That unit happens to be a French unit.
Did any one tell you that? Try this one. Join the Navy and tell them that you cannot
understand or speak English. They will send you to the language school in CFB St-Jean.
Be carefull about your fairy tales. My alias means underseaboat, or U-Boat. K is for
Commending officer and Lt for Lieutenant. You should get a medal for making up stories.
Could you share with us how you can get in trouble with so much ease? You probably
read to much the Montreal Gazette. Read very slowly Irish. The FLQ ceased to exist 30
years ago. Get out of your foxhole. Have you been hiding for over 30 years?

"LD NOT BEND TO THE FRENCH NAZIS. ...HE ENGLISH IN MONTREAL."

Stop Irish, you will make me cry. Some English hospital in Montreal:

1- Jewish General Hospital-Sir Mortimer B Davis,

2- Lakeshore general hospital

3-Montreal general hospital

4- Royal Victoria hospital

5- St Mary's hospital

6- Montreal children hospital

7- McGill health centre

and two universities: McGill and Concordia plus the colleges. Irish, why do we not talk
about they money that Alliance Québec receives from the Canadian taxpayers? Some say
that Alliance Québec received close to one million dollars from Ottawa. Do you agree that
on the basis that Québec gets more money from the federal than all the other provinces put
together, Alliance Québec should send the money back?

"TRANSLATING EVERYTHING...L OTHER PROVINCES COMBINED."

Irish, you cannot understand English. How do expect to understand French? Where did
you learn your maths?

"NOW ONLY THE FRENCH CAN...Y AND ANY PUBLIC OFFICE."

Do you expect us to take you seriouly? I am laughing only by looking at your post.

"WHY DON'T WE GIVE THEM THE ...YMENTS FOR THE FIRST YEAR."

Irish, you skipped you History classes. The first Canadians were the French. The native
were not called Canadians. The Scoth came in 1763 before the Irish. If you are a true
Irish, you should know when, where and how they arrived in Québec last century. They
were very happy to have the French to take care of the dying and dead Irish who got sick
on the ships. Visit a place near Montmagny, it is called l'île de la quarantaine (The Island
of the quarantine).

"ANYONE WORTH HAVING...BE PUT ON A BOAT TO FRANCE. "

Irish, I propose that you use the same ships that the Irish immigrants used last century.

Irish, keep posting, I like to laugh.

[This message has been edited by Unterseeboot-9 (edited 01-26-2001).]

Posted: 01/ 27/ 01 1:01 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Ed s. This is what you typed: "And who can forget the impact of the trampling of the Quebec flag by a few anti-French cranks in Brockville, Ont., a scene almost lovingly played and re-played over and over again on Quebec television, sometimes in slow motion, to whip up public fury and help send support for sovereignty to unprecedented levels in 1990? ". You sir are repeating the BS line of the political and the media elite. Some time after the Brockville event I had occasion to meet the flag stompers. Guess what ED S? They were one and all, Quebecers that had been forced to leave Quebec because of oppressive language laws and discrimination. These same people were in Kingston, Ontario and did much the same to the flag. We have in bothlocations people from the province of Quebec STOMPING & BURNING THEIR OWN FLAG! THEIR OWN FLAG! THEIR OWN FLAG!. I pointed out this FACT to the media but they failed to report the event as it really was. If a group of people from Alberta came into Toronto and stomped and burnt their OWN provincial flag the question should be " What in hell did Alberta do to their citizens to make them do this?". A group of people from the Province of Quebec moved to Ontario and had a flag stomp. The question should be " What in hell did Quebec do to their citizens to make them do this?". Oh, the truth. Tell it and it will set you free!!

Posted: 01/ 27/ 01 1:07 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Irish. I believe the first non native residents from Europe was the Vikings. I think the Vikings should file land claims on large sections of Atlantic Canada. They might suceed as they were the first to start killing the natives.I guess it would be called the First Blood Claim.

Posted: 01/ 27/ 01 2:18 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

wildernessvoice, Actually, I didn't type anything; all I did was post a copy of Don Macpherson's original commentary from The Gazette.

I'm originally from Quebec, BTW. Now, those supposed Quebecers who stomped on the flag at the Brockville railway station, yes, they were mostly members of the CVESPA, a splinter group from Alliance Quebec. "Angryphones" we call them.

And yes, RDI and Radio-Canada did replay, ad nauseum the video of the stomping way back in the early nineties.

As for burning the Quebec flag, I'm unaware of this happening. I do know that separatist thugs have burned the Canadian flag, from time-to-time, but maybe you can provide an example of the opposite situation. Maybe my memory is hazy.

As for "Loi 101" and the rights of anglophone and allophone Quebecers. Well, as a conservative, who believes in the rule of law, and that fundamental rights are not defined by heredity, or ethnic background, I invite you to visit my friend, Howard Galganov's web site. You can read Howards comments, which mostly mirror mine, and you can read some of my letters to him, which are also posted there. They fairly well describe my own views on the Quebec elite, and their contempt for democracy and civil rights.

Finally, you ask: " What in hell did Quebec do to their citizens to make them do this?". Oh, just abrogate their rights, that's all.

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My Free Republic alias is NorthernRight

[This message has been edited by Ed S (edited 01-27-2001).]

Posted: 01/ 27/ 01 3:52 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

Hehee!! I love this columnist!

Zoo may cash in on 'red rag' flap

Don Martin, Calgary Herald

Bernard Landry's flag-bashing could be a rags-to-riches story for, of all places, the Calgary Zoo.

The who's who at the zoo were sitting around their board table Wednesday, commiserating the 18-month wait for a federal response to their $5-million pitch for the 2.5-acre Destination Africa exhibit.

Newspapers were lying around. Someone scanned the headlines and . . .
HEY, what's this? Quebec's next premier won't accept $18-million from the feds to fly the "red rag" Maple Leaf flag over the Quebec Zoo?

A wise official immediately, um, red-flagged that development as a golden fund-raising opportunity for their zoo.

Perhaps, it was thought, a Liberal government spooked by western alienation would accept the proud flapping of many, many Maple Leaf flags as the condition of their much-needed zoo grant.

After all, the Nation of Alberta is being constitutionally crafted right now, if you believe the clippings.

The traditional federal response to patriotic unrest is for Sheila Copps to blanket the aggrieved region with flags and for the cabinet to open the funding spigots to enhance the value of staying in Canada.

And this is a BIG zoo. Not the piddly cage and aquarium variety in Quebec City. Calgary's sprawling animal preserves attract visitors from throughout the future Republic of Alberta and beyond, into the entire western hinterland.

"We would deeply appreciate having what Quebec doesn't want," zoo president Alex Graham told me. "We'd fly a helluva lot of flags in the Prehistoric Park if it would get the federal government working with us on this $30-million project. Perhaps they could make it $6 million or $7 million. We'd put up dozens of flags, Alberta, Saskatoon, Quebec, whatever it took.
There's no limit to how many flags we would fly if it would help, although the Fleur-de-lis on its own might be a little tough in Western Canada."

If given the handout, would an ungrateful Calgary Zoo echo Landry's sneering analogy, equating the flagging of government support with the selling of sex on a street corner? Hell, no.

That's just not the Alberta way -- show us the money and we'll red flag any donor. There's even a bronze plaque in it for the lucky minister at the ribbon-cutting. Want it bilingual? De rien.

----continued; http://www.calgaryherald.com/columnists/martin/stories/010125/5060774.html

Posted: 01/ 27/ 01 9:22 am Post subject: Landry calls flag 'red rag'

I spend a lot of time south of the border so I think I've seen a fair amount of flag trashing down there. It is a practice that I personally find repugnant but I understand it. In most cases it is because the citizen perceives himself as being oppressed by the powers in place. A clip of the Canadian flag being disrespected at a St. John Baptiste Day parade certainly will not destroy my faith in the French. I believe that they will separate and I do believe we will remain friends. Why? Because the sons and daughters of English Canada will continue to date, fall in love with and marry the sons and daughters of French Canadian. Did Willy S not write a play along this theme?

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