English Rights meeting in Ottawa June 21st.

[thirdEye]

Be sure to check out this thread too:

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41232

[Conservative_Monarchist]

Don't waste your time with him, thirdEye. We've been putting up with this Francophone b.s. since before he was even around loading his drawers with b.m.

He wouldn't understand.

Yeah I can see that.

I don't know if he's french or not, but the only thing worse than a french agitator for francophone rights is an English agitator for francophone rights, or francophile.

Let me guess, he's in high school, in french immersion, and he thinks being bilingual is the solution to every problem this country faces. And he thinks "frenchies" (or bilingual people) rule and English people are "y'all".

Yep, they are brainwashing them well.

Well, since you've been kind enough to guess at my background, I should probably just share it.

My family is about 1/2 French and 1/2 German. I go to a Public, ENGLISH language secondary school. The language of choice at my house is English. The language I communicate in most often is English. I've also got 6 years of German language education behind me, 2 years of Japanese, and a year and a half of Filipino. Any other questions?

[Conservative_Monarchist]

No different than anglos here refusing to speak to a federal government office if they are greeted in French AND English, has to be English only. Y'all are just pissing and moaning over nothing.

No different, eh? Who do you think the oppresor is in instances of oppression? Joe Bloe from the street or the government?

Which is more oppressive - a person telling the government they don't want to use a another language, or the government telling the people they can't use another language?

You think it's just "pissing and moaning" over nothing? Okay tough guy, you think you're bilingual? Come to Ottawa and try to get a job with the federal government. Then try to go over to the Quebec side and "demand" fair treatment in English. Fair tretament for the English doesn't exist on the Quebec side. Yet you seem to be perfectly okay with that.

You favour oppression. You are an oppressor.

And you're inference that we are rednecks by referring to us as "y'all" has not gone unnoticed.

You see, here's the thing. I wouldn't ask for English service in Quebec, being as I can communicate just fine in French. And for future reference, you should go to a Federal gov't office here in London, like the Passport Office, or a provincial gov't office, like Health Cards and ask for service in French. The time it takes them to find someone for you is a load of BS. I've tried it just to see what y'all are bitching about. They have it just as hard in Anglo areas as you guys think you'd have in Quebec. Furthermore, if you don't like French, stay the hell out of Quebec. If you don't live in Quebec, you have no right to bitch about their language laws.

Bye now.

[thirdEye]

Don't waste your time with him, thirdEye. We've been putting up with this Francophone b.s. since before he was even around loading his drawers with b.m.

He wouldn't understand.

Yeah I can see that.

I don't know if he's french or not, but the only thing worse than a french agitator for francophone rights is an English agitator for francophone rights, or francophile.

Let me guess, he's in high school, in french immersion, and he thinks being bilingual is the solution to every problem this country faces. And he thinks "frenchies" (or bilingual people) rule and English people are "y'all".

Yep, they are brainwashing them well.

Well, since you've been kind enough to guess at my background, I should probably just share it.

My family is about 1/2 French and 1/2 German. I go to a Public, ENGLISH language secondary school. The language of choice at my house is English. The language I communicate in most often is English. I've also got 6 years of German language education behind me, 2 years of Japanese, and a year and a half of Filipino. Any other questions?

Nope, but I was right about high school.

So you are generally a francophile then.

Good work with the languages, keep at it - I applaud those who can master multiple languages.

Just don't ever suggest, with the condescension of an elitist, that we are "bitching" at the oppression of English in Quebec while faced with the full on promotion of french by the federal government in the rest of Canada.

[thirdEye]

You see, here's the thing. I wouldn't ask for English service in Quebec, being as I can communicate just fine in French.

Well, that's good for you. I just won't go to Quebec. The thing is though, it's not about me - it's about English communities in Quebec who are not allowed to use their own language in their own community. I have no problems with french communities in Ontario using their own langauge in their own community.

But for the record, if I planned on moving to Quebec City, I would fully expect to have to learn french. Just like I would expect to have to learn Italian if I was going to move to Rome.

Why can we not expect someone who is moving from Quebec City to London Ontario to have to learn English?

And for future reference, you should go to a Federal gov't office here in London, like the Passport Office, or a provincial gov't office, like Health Cards and ask for service in French. The time it takes them to find someone for you is a load of BS. I've tried it just to see what y'all are bitching about.

If you live in London, are french, and can't speak English, here are your options:

a) Learn English
b) Get the hell out of London and move to Quebec.

If you live in London, and can speak English, but go around demanding service in french anyways, here are your options:

a) Go to hell.

You see London is an English community, in an English speaking province, in a predominantly English speaking country, on a predominantly English speaking continent.

There are no logical or practical reasons why any french speaking person from anywhere should be able to go to London and demand to be catered to in french. It just doesn't make any sense.

And for your future reference, you should go to a federal government building here in Ottawa and see how hard it is to get decent service in English.

They have it just as hard in Anglo areas as you guys think you'd have in Quebec.

Oh, the poor babies have it so hard. Certainly they have it much harder than English people, in English communities, in Quebec who are charged hefty fines or sent to jail for something as simple as having an English sign, or speaking English at work.

Furthermore, if you don't like French, stay the hell out of Quebec. If you don't live in Quebec, you have no right to bitch about their language laws.

I have no problem with the french in Quebec. It's the french everywhere else that is the problem.

By following your logic, if someone doesn't like English, shouldn't they stay the hell out of the rest of Canada?

And yes we do have a right to bitch about their language laws. They are oppressive, they violate the Canadian Charter of Rights, and they violate th UN Declaration of Human Rights. Are you, a fascist, or do you oppose oppression wherever it may be happening? Quit giving Quebec a free ride.

We cannot understand why Quebec is able to operate independently of federal policies on bilingualism while those same federal policies attempt to ram french down the throats of the rest of Canada. The expense of it all just does not seem necessary, and the double standard just does not seem fair.

Though, as it regards this issue, I suspect you have a hard time seeing what fair is.

[Lionhead]

You see, here's the thing. I wouldn't ask for English service in Quebec, being as I can communicate just fine in French. And for future reference, you should go to a Federal gov't office here in London, like the Passport Office, or a provincial gov't office, like Health Cards and ask for service in French. The time it takes them to find someone for you is a load of BS. I've tried it just to see what y'all are bitching about.

Good. I hope it takes forever. You shouldn't be speaking bleeping French in London anyway.

I'd love to hear your impersonation of a Francophone, sometime. Why would you be asking for service in French anyway? I wasn't bitching about any lack of French services in London.

I should be able to go ANYWHERE in Canada and use the English language, including Quebec.

Just as American Francophones in Maine and Vermont can speak English, so should all Francophone Quebecers.

Jean Charest suggested mandatory English be taught in Quebec public schools and he's right.

I, personally, have had enough of taxpayers' dollars wasted on bilingualism, while English rights in Quebec continue to disappear!

And personally, I've always thought Lowell Green was a jerk.

[thirdEye]

And personally, I've always thought Lowell Green was a jerk.

He can be sometimes. But often he has some very good points, and is right. Sometimes he has to be a jerk to deal with some of the jerks who call him.

[NorthJoe]

As an Ontarian of French-Canadian descent, with ties in Quebec that are older than Samuel de Champlain, I thought I'd wade into this debate.
I agree with the language laws adopted by Quebec, because they were necessary at the time and language and culture is within provincial jurisdiction. However, I do have a big problem with those who push bilingualism in Ontario. Bottom line-- If you live in Ontario, the majority language is English. NO ONE should be denied a job in Ontario because they cannot speak French. I do not believe there are unilingual Francophones in Ontario in 2005. All that these mandatory bilingual requirements do is reward Francophone families (like mine) for an accident of birth because over 70 % of bilingual speakers are in fact, Francophone. Wow, this is all about advancing bilingualism among the general public.
For Conservative Monarchist- by the way, I share the political view expressed in your name- I do not believe one should expect French services in London. Sorry. As expressed above, Francophones in English Canada need to accept that the dominant language is English. A good point was raised in showing the shitty character of many- not all - immersion and even French high school graduates. I am from Northern Ontario and have lived among these people all my life. Most of them take the courses to be "bilingual" and lose it almost immediately after school. Language must be embraced in a community. You can't just learn it in school, never use it outside and expect to be be fluent.
Forcing bilingualism down English Ontarians has to stop. It does not help relations between the two founding communities- it hurts and hinders them, but it sure gives jobs to Hull residents and French Ottawans.
GOOD FOR PEOPLE FOR STANDING UP!!!!

[thirdEye]

NorthJoe - good post. Thanks for the input.